Xbox 360 not adopting Blu-ray

like i said in the previous article. 360 doesnt need it. too many 360 users out there already. installing a new drive in the system would alienate the existing users.

if Msoft goes blu, it would be for the next system. not this one.

I think GTA will sell more PS3 then 360 consoles lol

Graphics are probably better after this long and the only plus about the 360 is that you get to download some extra crap that you have to pay for :P

Originally posted by DoomLight:

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like i said in the previous article. 360 doesnt need it. too many 360 users out there already. installing a new drive in the system would alienate the existing users.

if Msoft goes blu, it would be for the next system. not this one.

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They're talking about an attachment lol

They'd screw a lot of people over if they were to just start building it into some new revision...

Originally posted by DoomLight:

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like i said in the previous article. 360 doesnt need it. too many 360 users out there already. installing a new drive in the system would alienate the existing users.

if Msoft goes blu, it would be for the next system. not this one.

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Hmm, i never really thought of it that way. Your probably right. I loved my 360 but had ring of death twice. so I decided till next x-mas to get another. Both to wait out if they could for sure fix the problem, and to see if maybe a blu-ray edittion came out.

But i guess your right, that would suck if overnight one day everyones 360 became obsolete. But with that much disc space at their disposal my guess is PS3 is on their way to to pass the 360 in a year or so now. The amount of content they can cram on one of those BR discs will blow away anything MS can do with just regular old dual-layer. I guess really it comes down to PS3 will have a few cool looking games, 360 will have a ton of games people will want to play. ;)

That's the only way 360 will be able to hang with PS3 down the road. by bombing the market with twice the quality titles. Sony releases one good game...360 should mob that game with 4 or 5 new ones.

Everyone is still blinded by the stupid fascination with discs that can hold X amount of data. Please spare us the stupidity! By the time the storage space on Blu-Ray media becomes relevent, it will be time for new consoles.

The next generation will come even closer to PC's and probably make you install the game on a hard drive. Hell, the PS3 already makes you do that for some games!

So what is the real advantage to a Blu-Ray disc that can hold all of this data if you need a hard drive to install to? I know part of it is to help load times, which will probably increase anytime a new media is introduced, since it will have to search more and more data.

I'm sure making game installs the standard would cause a problem with aftermarket sales and game rentals, and that's the only real reason we're not seeing it yet. (More DRM on the way kiddies!)

IMHO, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just release the game on 2 or more DVD's and let us install to an internal drive? Anyone with a modded original Xbox or PS2 can attest to how fast those games load and overall performance versus CD/DVD media. Neither of those systems had bleeding edge processors/memory in them either, compared to today's standards.

Or better yet, maybe the developers can clean up their code so it's not as bloated. I'm sure they've never had to worry about the overhead before. It's called the Big O notation theory and using compressed video with a more than capable codec.

The 360 should already be capable of doing this easily, seeing as it runs a hacked Windows OS and uses wave and windows media for the majority of its media content.

Perhaps the marketplace is just an excuse to sell off the extra content (for more profit I may add) that should already be on the original game disc, rather than take the time or effort to cram it on the media in the first place.

I also wanted to add, this is most likely the reason Nintendo did not adopt HD content or media for the Wii. They kept system and game costs lower than their competition, and appealed to a broader audience, much of which can't program their microwave clock, rather than try to use a console which has forced itself as the commanding device in your entertainment center.

The move has paid off in the short term, by having a larger installed base than their competitors, which ultimately should pay off for them in the long term as well.

Considering what the Wii has accomplished, with all but one of their games on DVD5 discs (Super Smash Bros. is the exception, on DVD9) I can't say they have had a flawed strategy so far.

I agree about the Wii getting it right. XBL is a huge gold digger. The cost of gaming can easily mount with all of the gimmicks they try to sell you. I want a console to be just a console and not a marketplace portal. I spend $30 to $60 on a game and that's all I spend. Thank goodness for bluray winning, because it made my choice for a PS3 more justifiable.

But back on topic, so what if MS incorporates bluray in future models? It's not like they've had a problem with it before - "it" meaning offering various versions of their system to totally confuse and piss off the customer. They can just offer a bluray add-on. But Sony would be stupid to give that leveling tool to a competitor - and their only competitor in the gaming market right now (if we all agree that the console war is only between MS and Sony based purely on hardware specs and targeted demographic).

Thanks for calling me stupid just to help drive home your baseless fanboy rant. Your so much cooler and smarter than me because you can call other people stupid.
Your point could have been just as easily stated without name calling for no reason other than being an a'hole.

Now. I will agree the coders need to scale back their bloated programs. You have a very good point there. Blu-ray may provide just a crutch so they don't have to. But in the rush to get a title out i doubt any dev will take time to trim anything...not as long as they have a huge amount of disc space they can use...and abuse. And as for hi-def? I think sony and MS were planning ahead and wanted to present their games in the best way possible.

Problem is most people don't have hi-def T.V.s right now. But most T.V's on the market these days offer some form of a higher def than the current analog lines of def. So they may have been right, your next T.V. will be High-def so why not take advantage of that technology?

Fact is as good as the 360 is, the ps3 has the most room to improve over it's 10 year product cycle. The 360 is as good as it's going to get right now. Doesn't make the 360 garbage just, not as cutting edge as it was when it launched 3 years ago now. And as the Wii proves everyday...you don't need "cutting-edge" to sell. The games and content can't speak volumes. And that's something Xbox will always have over Sony. The 360 libray dwarfs PS3's library and will continue to. So as long as MS keeps putting out "more" and better games Sony will always lag behind in sales.

Also not being top technology leader the 360 can continue to cut cost...and further entrench it's self against Sony's machine.

Originally posted by jookycola:

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Also not being top technology leader the 360 can continue to cut cost...and further entrench it's self against Sony's machine.

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MS can also cut costs because they have a steady stream of income through XBL. Although I hate it, I have to admit that it's a great idea and great way to keep longevity, even if all they decide to do is port PC games. Both consoles are going to grow a lot differently IMO, but that seems like the only logical way to survive. I agree that the 360 has pretty much hit its performance apex, and they probably know that and have had their live content in their back pocket since inception. And there is no real market for them to incorporate a bluray player. Because what did bluray really win? A spot for their trophy? SD will reign for a while. MS incorporating a bluray player would be a pointless expense. I bought my PS3 with the main intent of gaming and bluray as a side thought. If bluray remains stagnant for the next couple of years, at least I have a cutting edge gaming system. If bluray takes off, then I have a built in player and don't have to worry about buying a standalone. In hindsight, the standalone HD player for the 360 was a joke and half-hearted attempt to fuel a fake war.

Then the XBox is dead.
Simple as that.

The number of PS3 games that have to be downloaded to the HDD is negligible due to the fact that it encompasses only the disc release of warhawk. Other games only require a small portion of data which is used to speed up load times. Uncharted Drakes fortune took up nearly 25 gigs and is considered to be one of the most visually impressive console titles ever. Have fun putting that on 3 DVDs and still not be able to fit it on the Xbox 360 HDD without upgrading to an over priced 120 gig HDD .... only to discover the machine lacks the processing power to play it.

Originally posted by Hunt720:

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The number of PS3 games that have to be downloaded to the HDD is negligible due to the fact that it encompasses only the disc release of warhawk. Other games only require a small portion of data which is used to speed up load times. Uncharted Drakes fortune took up nearly 25 gigs and is considered to be one of the most visually impressive console titles ever. Have fun putting that on 3 DVDs and still not be able to fit it on the Xbox 360 HDD without upgrading to an over priced 120 gig HDD .... only to discover the machine lacks the processing power to play it.

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Haha.. right on :D !

Originally posted by jookycola:

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Thanks for calling me stupid just to help drive home your baseless fanboy rant. Your so much cooler and smarter than me because you can call other people stupid.
Your point could have been just as easily stated without name calling for no reason other than being an a'hole.

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Whoa, cool it. I never came out and said your name buddy. Nor do I ever try to attack people on here. Read below:

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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Everyone is still blinded by the stupid fascination with discs that can hold X amount of data. Please spare us the stupidity! By the time the storage space on Blu-Ray media becomes relevent, it will be time for new consoles.

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The first word in my post is Everyone. It's in damn near every thread I hear someone bring up X gb on Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD, or DVD, etc.)

I agree with alot, if not all of your points. The devs can be lazier, given more disc space. And there is this huge chemical imbalance between all the systems, given the specs, features, game library, etc. It will be argued until the next consoles come out.

And for Sony to say the PS3, in this day and age, will have a 10 year life expectancy, is absurd. The PS2 came out in 2000, and I would have to say the last year, maybe two, have been less than stellar. I know the console is selling, but look at the games. Sure there were titles like God of War, but honestly, the major developers already shifted gears towards the already launched Xbox 360, or the next Playstation system.

The most the PS2 is getting now are lousy ports, or rehashed EA Sports titles, until the system finally dies, which may take another 2 years so Sony can live up to that "10 year cycle" claim. We saw this same thing happen with the PSX.

Honestly, I can't even remember the last time I've had a reason to turn on my PS2.

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Originally posted by DoomLight:

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like i said in the previous article. 360 doesnt need it. too many 360 users out there already. installing a new drive in the system would alienate the existing users.

if Msoft goes blu, it would be for the next system. not this one.

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They're talking about an attachment lol

They'd screw a lot of people over if they were to just start building it into some new revision...

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as an attachment i was talking about also. tho i shoulda prolly mentioned it. i wouldnt' buy the attachment. Blu-Ray movies dont impress me as of yet. their only advantage to me is the amount of data they can hold.

and as for the redone old conversation about power of the ps3 vs 360. i haven't seen anything that makes the PS3 or 360 better than each other. u can only blame the developers if they dont maximize the power of the system they program for. in the beginning PS3 games didnt look as good as 360 games. now its tapering off a bit to equality. but ps3 still has no games worth getting in my opinion. so im still gonna love my 3rd warrantied 360 a bit longer LOL

I knew that wasnt Going to happen. Microsoft support a rival. never in a million years is that going to happen. Even if they did make an BR add on for xbox360. It would then Give Sony a Major Position to call licensing Fee's on the BD's.

M$ games Are already Way overpriced. add A BR licence tag to that it could drive game into the "Hell no range i aint gonna buy that range"(there already in that range).

If another format war pops up. they need to stop allowing Big Corp Suits to Side with a format. Sony Did not Make Blu-ray, Nor did MS make HD-DVD. they were Supporters And have no reason to call a license fee But the can and the Will.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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I knew that wasnt Going to happen. Microsoft support a rival. never in a million years is that going to happen. Even if they did make an BR add on for xbox360. It would then Give Sony a Major Position to call licensing Fee's on the BD's.

M$ games Are already Way overpriced. add A BR licence tag to that it could drive game into the "Hell no range i aint gonna buy that range"(there already in that range).

If another format war pops up. they need to stop allowing Big Corp Suits to Side with a format. Sony Did not Make Blu-ray, Nor did MS make HD-DVD. they were Supporters And have no reason to call a license fee But the can and the Will.

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Uhh, didn't Sony develop it with Panasonic???

Develope,no

Impliment,Yes

(Sony)Implimenting Is like this, here some paper with some blue prints, now go build it.

(Panisonic)okay we'll Develope it But then what.

(sony)Huh...........we could charge licensing fee's to pay you guy's
with.

(Panisonic)Okay as long as we get paid i dont care.

Ill give it about 2 years before Panasonic Goes in an up roar with Sony.

i still have hope...NOT...ill just get a blu-ray player for my tv and i'll be set!!

Are we supposed to be shocked/surprised or something?

More non-news from the staff here. I mean really.. M$ aren't going to adopt something they have to pay huge licensing for and there is no proven market for BR.. It's a minority format. BD+ will just about kill it off thank foook. Then we can carry on like we have for the last 8 years watching our normal 720i dvd's quite happily thanks..

Thanks Varnull

TO me its simple

1.Start making better designed 360s,stock them while you

2.Drop the live fees

3.Make HDDs cheaper

4.Drop all LIVE/HDD resertions on devs.

5.Unlock the USB pipes OR
Made a cheap HDDkit to runany HDD you want and it has a un restricted USB port.

6.About a year after all these start the new 360 line, this SKU will be the finished/fixed one, sale it in 3 diffrent versions.

Lite:no HDD mem card jsut the std AV hook up,power cord the controler is extra sale it for 130$.

Preium:80-150GB HDD 1 controler the std/componate hookups,power cord for 250$

Elite:100+ HDD,mem card,2 controlers,STD/HDMI hookups,power cord 350$

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I'm sure making game installs the standard would cause a problem with aftermarket sales and game rentals, and that's the only real reason we're not seeing it yet. (More DRM on the way kiddies!)

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I disagree SProdigy, aftermarket sales and game rentals would not be affected since all that needs to be done is to ensure that the "original" game disc is in the drive just like "almost" every PC game that I play on my rig.

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I'm sure making game installs the standard would cause a problem with aftermarket sales and game rentals, and that's the only real reason we're not seeing it yet. (More DRM on the way kiddies!)

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I disagree SProdigy, aftermarket sales and game rentals would not be affected since all that needs to be done is to ensure that the "original" game disc is in the drive just like "almost" every PC game that I play on my rig.

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This is true, MS should not try to be so nazistic over it they made a crappy system if they want games deved for it they shouldn't be picky about if devs want to use the HDD or not.

That BITES!!!!! thats all i have to say except i guess i will b getting a PS3 for Xmas this year also!

Next Christmas is good timing... By then they'll have the MGS pack with the DS3 controllers :)

That's gotta be one of the first packages to come with a game worth playing :P

Originally posted by ZimHosein:

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I'm sure making game installs the standard would cause a problem with aftermarket sales and game rentals, and that's the only real reason we're not seeing it yet. (More DRM on the way kiddies!)

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I disagree SProdigy, aftermarket sales and game rentals would not be affected since all that needs to be done is to ensure that the "original" game disc is in the drive just like "almost" every PC game that I play on my rig.

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But... as is the case, I'm thinking of the counter measures they would put in place to prevent me from burning the game, writing down the serial key, and then selling the disc to you. You could still play the disc as normal, but then again, in theory, so could I right?

With the way MS already ties XBL and other services to your console's serial number, I would think they would implement DRM on the disc and an online activation for that game, binding it to the console. (BTW, this is pretty much what is done for XBL downloadable content. There are reports of systems that were repaired, where they owner couldn't retrieve $100's of dollars of XBL content after the system was returned to them.)

Anyhow, I think they are tooling with this idea, but once again, what would happen to the rental industry and aftermarket sellers (ebay, GameStop)? And how about just taking the game over to a friend's house so you can play co-op or he can try it out?

I'm just speaking in theory here, maybe way off base, but how many games did was have in the previous gen consoles that were multi-disc?

The 360 doesn't need Blu-Ray.Installing a game to improve loading times on the PS3 negates it's storage capacity on Blu-Ray.The 360 could do exactly the same with multiple DVD9's.
I think when the next generation of HD consoles comes out with faster Blu-Ray drives, then Blu-Ray will be worth it as a streaming/loading data medium.
I played Uncharted on PS3 and Gears still looks better even though it's less than 25gig.Wake me up when MGS,Final Fantasy,Haze and LBP comes out and then I'll re-evaluate the difference between the 360 and PS3 but I'm not expecting any REAL BIG differences between the two.A few developers have said they are both similar in power and I agree with them.

Originally posted by ChromeMud:

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The 360 doesn't need Blu-Ray.Installing a game to improve loading times on the PS3 negates it's storage capacity on Blu-Ray.The 360 could do exactly the same with multiple DVD9's.
I think when the next generation of HD consoles comes out with faster Blu-Ray drives, then Blu-Ray will be worth it as a streaming/loading data medium.
I played Uncharted on PS3 and Gears still looks better even though it's less than 25gig.Wake me up when MGS,Final Fantasy,Haze and LBP comes out and then I'll re-evaluate the difference between the 360 and PS3 but I'm not expecting any REAL BIG differences between the two.A few developers have said they are both similar in power and I agree with them.

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How much space dose that uncompressed audio on the MGS4 BR take out I wonder?

Still the 360 is in piss poor shape all things considered, MS can't evolve the 360 any and the PS3 is shaping up nicely.

Like I said get the HDDs cheaper to the people drop the foolish limits on live and HDD games,polish the 360 as so the best games can come to it easily because anyway you look at ti you are paying a premium for the 360 yet its worse than any console before it hardware wise..

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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Originally posted by ZimHosein:

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I'm sure making game installs the standard would cause a problem with aftermarket sales and game rentals, and that's the only real reason we're not seeing it yet. (More DRM on the way kiddies!)

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I disagree SProdigy, aftermarket sales and game rentals would not be affected since all that needs to be done is to ensure that the "original" game disc is in the drive just like "almost" every PC game that I play on my rig.

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But... as is the case, I'm thinking of the counter measures they would put in place to prevent me from burning the game, writing down the serial key, and then selling the disc to you. You could still play the disc as normal, but then again, in theory, so could I right?

With the way MS already ties XBL and other services to your console's serial number, I would think they would implement DRM on the disc and an online activation for that game, binding it to the console. (BTW, this is pretty much what is done for XBL downloadable content. There are reports of systems that were repaired, where they owner couldn't retrieve $100's of dollars of XBL content after the system was returned to them.)

Anyhow, I think they are tooling with this idea, but once again, what would happen to the rental industry and aftermarket sellers (ebay, GameStop)? And how about just taking the game over to a friend's house so you can play co-op or he can try it out?

I'm just speaking in theory here, maybe way off base, but how many games did was have in the previous gen consoles that were multi-disc?

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MS should setup a simple trade system, bind the live stuff to the account it was bought from then if sold off with a unit or HDD have it transfered to a new account for 5$ or 25 cents a game.

However they will double dip for as long as they can...

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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How much space dose that uncompressed audio on the MGS4 BR take out I wonder?

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What's more relevant is the fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers.Nice feature to boast about but it's more like willy waving than essential inclusion.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Still the 360 is in piss poor shape all things considered, MS can't evolve the 360 any and the PS3 is shaping up nicely

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Well PSN seems dead with no new stuff to download apart from wallpapers and themes.PS3 still can't scale all it's games to 1080P like the 360.PS3 still can't stream HD video files more than 4Gig in size whereas the 360 can.HOME is around the corner hopefuly, but even if it did trump LIVE do you not think Microsoft would try to compete?360 userbase is almost double that of PS3 so how is that it is so piss poor and that the PS3 is shaping up so good?
The 360 isn't evolving!!!It has recently offered HD film downloads in the UK,expanded the size of game downloads,connected it all up with Windows LIVE and messenger and you think Microsoft has given up...yeah right!

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Like I said get the HDDs cheaper to the people drop the foolish limits on live and HDD games,polish the 360 as so the best games can come to it easily because anyway you look at ti you are paying a premium for the 360 yet its worse than any console before it hardware wise..

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Something I can agree with at last.Yeah,free up the USB port's to allow external HDD even if they DRM the transfers,it's still better than charging stupid money for their HDD's.Free multiplayer on LIVE with GOLD users being subsidised on all pricing for DLC 30-50% microsoft points would be a good move.Hardware wise it has improved reliability in the latest Falcon chipsets but I'd still rate it 3rd place in that area,atleast it has a 3 year warranty.
Technicaly,games still match or better the PS3's offerings at this time but hopefuly the PS3 will get some exclusives worth cheering about.

The fact that people don't either know how, or dont chose to use the digital audio out for surround sound still doesn't change the fact that even if someone with a 360 wanted to they couldn't.

The PS3 has beenable to play games (past and present) on 1080p since firmware 1.8 last year... which by the way was BEFORE the 360 decided to include an HDMI port standard in all its consoles. A quick google search would have cleared that up for you before you posted.

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The 360 doesn't need Blu-Ray.Installing a game to improve loading times on the PS3 negates it's storage capacity on Blu-Ray.The 360 could do exactly the same with multiple DVD9's.

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Again.. not sure how many times we need to go over this, but the fact that you download a small bit of data from a BR to the hard drive doesn't "negate" the fact that the disc holds 90% of the info that you simply can't fit on a single DVD... or 5 for that matter. And if putting the same game on MULTIPLE DVD9's is "exactly the same" as a SINGLE blu-ray then I would invest in a calculator.. or a math lesson. Will the 360 play mathblaster?.. it would fit on a single DVD9 I'm sure.

The PS3 doesn't need to support HD files over 4 gigs for streaming anyhow at this point (even though this can be changed should you decide to complain to the correct people), it supports Blu-Ray.. which won the format war. You can enjoy a few of the same movies on the ol' HD-DVD dongle .. you'll have to decide how you want to avoid your "tv speakers" but that decision won't be an issue come May.

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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How much space dose that uncompressed audio on the MGS4 BR take out I wonder?

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What's more relevant is the fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers.Nice feature to boast about but it's more like willy waving than essential inclusion.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Still the 360 is in piss poor shape all things considered, MS can't evolve the 360 any and the PS3 is shaping up nicely

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Well PSN seems dead with no new stuff to download apart from wallpapers and themes.PS3 still can't scale all it's games to 1080P like the 360.PS3 still can't stream HD video files more than 4Gig in size whereas the 360 can.HOME is around the corner hopefuly, but even if it did trump LIVE do you not think Microsoft would try to compete?360 userbase is almost double that of PS3 so how is that it is so piss poor and that the PS3 is shaping up so good?
The 360 isn't evolving!!!It has recently offered HD film downloads in the UK,expanded the size of game downloads,connected it all up with Windows LIVE and messenger and you think Microsoft has given up...yeah right!

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Like I said get the HDDs cheaper to the people drop the foolish limits on live and HDD games,polish the 360 as so the best games can come to it easily because anyway you look at ti you are paying a premium for the 360 yet its worse than any console before it hardware wise..

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Something I can agree with at last.Yeah,free up the USB port's to allow external HDD even if they DRM the transfers,it's still better than charging stupid money for their HDD's.Free multiplayer on LIVE with GOLD users being subsidised on all pricing for DLC 30-50% microsoft points would be a good move.Hardware wise it has improved reliability in the latest Falcon chipsets but I'd still rate it 3rd place in that area,atleast it has a 3 year warranty.
Technicaly,games still match or better the PS3's offerings at this time but hopefuly the PS3 will get some exclusives worth cheering about.

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Oy read between the lines,it looks that 10-25GB is audio only on MSG4 meaning its very doable on the 360.

PSN is gowning and dosen't have the space issues live dose (Bionic command anyone) plus free beats lives moronic fee anyday.
Sorry but the 360 is a wonky git while the PS3 is new and under deved and rough around the edges it will snowball unless MS dose something other than charge the consumer a premium for cheap crap.

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The fact that people don't either know how, or dont chose to use the digital audio out for surround sound still doesn't change the fact that even if someone with a 360 wanted to they couldn't.

The PS3 has beenable to play games (past and present) on 1080p since firmware 1.8 last year... which by the way was BEFORE the 360 decided to include an HDMI port standard in all its consoles. A quick google search would have cleared that up for you before you posted.

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The 360 doesn't need Blu-Ray.Installing a game to improve loading times on the PS3 negates it's storage capacity on Blu-Ray.The 360 could do exactly the same with multiple DVD9's.

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Again.. not sure how many times we need to go over this, but the fact that you download a small bit of data from a BR to the hard drive doesn't "negate" the fact that the disc holds 90% of the info that you simply can't fit on a single DVD... or 5 for that matter. And if putting the same game on MULTIPLE DVD9's is "exactly the same" as a SINGLE blu-ray then I would invest in a calculator.. or a math lesson. Will the 360 play mathblaster?.. it would fit on a single DVD9 I'm sure.

The PS3 doesn't need to support HD files over 4 gigs for streaming anyhow at this point (even though this can be changed should you decide to complain to the correct people), it supports Blu-Ray.. which won the format war. You can enjoy a few of the same movies on the ol' HD-DVD dongle .. you'll have to decide how you want to avoid your "tv speakers" but that decision won't be an issue come May.

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Ya and the PS3 was a overpriced monstrosity for AV nerds at launch its not much better right now this minute, 360 has more stuff but it costs more in more ways than one.


as for MSG4....I am betting sound is 1/3rd to 1/2 the 50GB disc if MS had any sense they would go full throttle a "install crutch" to get the games to at least be even with the PS3 but MS refuses to drop the price of the HDDs or launch a add any HDD you want kit for the 360 without cheaper HDDs and a focus on more space they are screwed.

Hell with HDVD as cheap as it is they could do that for gaming, remember HDVD discs are up to 51GB.

Really MS needs to do something or they have made the 360 worthless.

The Wii doesn't have HD and it's doing well. The Xbox 360 will probably lower it's price and compete as nothing more than a game machine. For the price conscious, this will be a good thing.

Also, when stand alone Blue-ray players are in the sub $200 range. More people will buy them and not so much consider Blu-ray when buying a game machine i.e. Playstation.

At which point, the Playstation will be viewed as overpriced for gamers. So they will go to the Xbox or Wii for games, and a stand alone player for Blu-ray, leaving a niche market for Playstation.

On the other hand. Something entirely different will play out. Maybe an unknown company will develop a holographic game machine that also vacuums the floor. Everything at this point is pure speculation.

Right now, I have the 360 and the $49 HD player to go with it. I get the games off of Amazon or eBay at a fraction of the cost and the HD DVD's the same way. I'm waiting for Blu-ray to come down on price before buying one. Until then, my up converting players are just fine.

Originally posted by ChiefBrdy:

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The Wii doesn't have HD and it's doing well. The Xbox 360 will probably lower it's price and compete as nothing more than a game machine. For the price conscious, this will be a good thing.

Also, when stand alone Blue-ray players are in the sub $200 range. More people will buy them and not so much consider Blu-ray when buying a game machine i.e. Playstation.

At which point, the Playstation will be viewed as overpriced for gamers. So they will go to the Xbox or Wii for games, and a stand alone player for Blu-ray, leaving a niche market for Playstation.

On the other hand. Something entirely different will play out. Maybe an unknown company will develop a holographic game machine that also vacuums the floor. Everything at this point is pure speculation.

Right now, I have the 360 and the $49 HD player to go with it. I get the games off of Amazon or eBay at a fraction of the cost and the HD DVD's the same way. I'm waiting for Blu-ray to come down on price before buying one. Until then, my up converting players are just fine.

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WII is a whole other type of "ballgame" I would not call them a game system in the common sense, the reason tis doing great is because tis sold out to be a mainstream gimmick, with 3 or 4 real games on it I dunno it needs more of alot of things to become a real game system to me, the 360 is broken and getting to its death bed without some improvement to the hardware aspect of it.

The PS3 seems to have the long run sewn up,right now its choices are not much better than the WII and the 360 has a nice selection of games if you want to deal with tis hardware issues and don;t have a game worthy PC.

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The Wii doesn't have HD and it's doing well. The Xbox 360 will probably lower it's price and compete as nothing more than a game machine. For the price conscious, this will be a good thing.

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ok i smell FANBOY!!! get real manXD

i think that the only reason for the 360 not getting a blu ray is because people will see it as another scam like the HD player...or they feel that a blu ray upgrade isn't needed yet

ummm microsoft released the ELITE model of the 360 for a reason. HDMI and a larger HDD are two key components towards building their LIVE download service and of course their upcoming model with the larger HDD should also be taken into consideration.

microsoft is trying to push their downloads, incorporating or adding a Blu-ray peripheral isn't something that would benefit their plan. they have already stated publically they are going to invest and improve their LIVE service.

Originally posted by hade:

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ummm microsoft released the ELITE model of the 360 for a reason. HDMI and a larger HDD are two key components towards building their LIVE download service and of course their upcoming model with the larger HDD should also be taken into consideration.

microsoft is trying to push their downloads, incorporating or adding a Blu-ray peripheral isn't something that would benefit their plan. they have already stated publically they are going to invest and improve their LIVE service.

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and doing one hell of a sloppy job at it.....

If they would just do something with the HDD to make it cheaper for everyone to have more than 20GB that would push their live service.

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360 userbase is almost double that of PS3 so how is that it is so piss poor and that the PS3 is shaping up so good?
The 360 isn't evolving!!!It has recently offered HD film downloads in the UK,expanded the size of game downloads,connected it all up with Windows LIVE and messenger and you think Microsoft has given up...yeah right!

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I know this was up there on the page a little bit but I felt the need to fix this. I skipped the psn v live part because I know nothing of live to compare the two. But the 360's user base is not almost double, it is a little more than 6 million ahead and it was released a year earlier, not exactly what Microsoft was hoping for. Another thing Microsoft wasn't hoping for was to be outsold during the holidays by the more expensive system (PS3) and to still be outsold since. Yet if you believe the PR spin it is because of shortages. They have been on the market the longest, yet can't make systems as fast. Sony has been outselling them and able to keep up with demand, but somehow Microsoft can't. Also the HD films part. Microsoft likes to talk about this, yet they are selling a system without a hdd and wifi (the arcade version) and I think the medium version has a small hdd and no wifi. So how good will this HD film download be when 2/3 of the versions of the system you are trying to sell it on are disadvantaged to use it?

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360 userbase is almost double that of PS3 so how is that it is so piss poor and that the PS3 is shaping up so good?
The 360 isn't evolving!!!It has recently offered HD film downloads in the UK,expanded the size of game downloads,connected it all up with Windows LIVE and messenger and you think Microsoft has given up...yeah right!

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I know this was up there on the page a little bit but I felt the need to fix this. I skipped the psn v live part because I know nothing of live to compare the two. But the 360's user base is not almost double, it is a little more than 6 million ahead and it was released a year earlier, not exactly what Microsoft was hoping for. Another thing Microsoft wasn't hoping for was to be outsold during the holidays by the more expensive system (PS3) and to still be outsold since. Yet if you believe the PR spin it is because of shortages. They have been on the market the longest, yet can't make systems as fast. Sony has been outselling them and able to keep up with demand, but somehow Microsoft can't. Also the HD films part. Microsoft likes to talk about this, yet they are selling a system without a hdd and wifi (the arcade version) and I think the medium version has a small hdd and no wifi. So how good will this HD film download be when 2/3 of the versions of the system you are trying to sell it on are disadvantaged to use it?

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One of my problems with the 360 is the disembodied multi heads it has one part of it prevented coherent HDD upgrades and the other wants 6GB film downloads....its assinie.

IMO
Microsoft is not putting a Blu-Ray drive in the current X-Box is because it would render all previously sold X-Box consoles useless once the first X-Box game on Blu-Ray hits the stores. That would tick off a lot of people.

The "niches" are being set.
Casual "parent" gamers go for the Wii. It is fun, cheap, and easy.
"Hardcore" gamers go for the X-Box. Best library of games.

But Sony played their cards right, and are trying to put a PS3 in everyones living room as a media center. A took them a year longer to get their system out...and the developer learning curve is steeper for Blu-Ray programmers....but it is clear that the PS3 is the only one of the 3 systems that is "next gen capable".

Built in Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Blu-Ray, Linux as a secondary OS (if you want it), and an easily upgradable HDD. Heck, I can get a 160GB Sata II, a 2.5 inch enclosure, and USB cable all SHIPPED from Newegg for under $100. Can't beat that.

Also, this statement:

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What's more relevant is the fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers.Nice feature to boast about but it's more like willy waving than essential inclusion.

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Total BS. Is it fact....or a weak opinion? A lot of MS fanboys say the PS3 is nothing but a Blu-Ray player that plays games....if that is the case...than why would someone buy a $400-$600 Hi-Def Media player with optical and HDMI outputs only play to play it through TV speakers?!?!

Xbox will need higher storage Capability's in its optical storage this is Evident, How ever DVD-18 may be There choice right now.

One of two things May happen HD-DVD may become XBox only media or they make multi DVD-18's(the most likly to happen)

Or they bite the bullet hard and make a new DVD with UHS Capacity
or side with BR(the most unlikly to happen)

@PantherM: Not every body has a 9000 dollar studio type equipment, so from Consumer view point i believe he may be right.

i have a Dolby Pro Logic II Decoder And that sounds really Good, for Xbox 360. i Purchased it for 258.99 At Piggly Wiggly's.

PS3 has the upper hand right now, Trust me M$ will pull somthing Out off there Billion dollar hat o'tricks.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Xbox will need higher storage Capability's in its optical storage this is Evident, How ever DVD-18 may be There choice right now.

One of two things May happen HD-DVD may become XBox only media or they make multi DVD-18's(the most likly to happen)

Or they bite the bullet hard and make a new DVD with UHS Capacity
or side with BR(the most unlikly to happen)

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Unless MS and sony can make a deal to do it I don;t see it,sony dose not need another platform to push movies on nor do they need to bleed money to buy off MS, I can see a BR add on before the 360 gets canned in 3ish years lets face it the Xbox 2 is coming :P.

The 360 needs more space this is a reality however I see them using HDDs its cheaper(or wold be if they would wake up) and gets them more live content sold theres really no down side to it.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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"........@PantherM: Not every body has a 9000 dollar studio type equipment, so from Consumer view point i believe he may be right.

i have a Dolby Pro Logic II Decoder And that sounds really Good, for Xbox 360. i Purchased it for 258.99 At Piggly Wiggly's.

PS3 has the upper hand right now, Trust me M$ will pull somthing Out off there Billion dollar hat o'tricks."

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I don't have that type of equipment neither. However, there is big difference between having a simple 5.1 system (which many people with 360/PS3's have) and saying that it is a "fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers."

Especially if some people want others to believe that the PS3 is nothing more than a Blu-Ray player. How many people would buy such an expensive Blu-Ray player...only to waste the audio on TV speakers?
People have been playing their video game systems through their "stero" speakers for LONG time now. That statement simply has the stench of fanboyism in a weak attempt to discount the uncompressed audio MGS4.

As far as the upper hand goes....I think it is really starting to go Sony's way. It seems like once Blu-Ray won the format war, the X-Box aged rather quickly. If HD-DVD would have won....than it would have been the X-Box, with its huge library of games, XBL, and HD-DVD add-on vs the PS3, it's blue-tooth, wi-fi, useless BD player, and a few titles.

As of right now, the PS3 has the "capability" to do everything the 360 does, but the 360 cannot do half as much (yes, hyperbole) as the PS3 can. For instance, XBL is FAR more advanced than the PSN....BUT...with the easily upgradable SATA II's, the secondary OS, and the unplugged USB ports, the PS3 has the "capability" to exceed the 360 in this area....it is just that Sony has not done for the PSN what MS has done for the 360.

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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"........@PantherM: Not every body has a 9000 dollar studio type equipment, so from Consumer view point i believe he may be right.

i have a Dolby Pro Logic II Decoder And that sounds really Good, for Xbox 360. i Purchased it for 258.99 At Piggly Wiggly's.

PS3 has the upper hand right now, Trust me M$ will pull somthing Out off there Billion dollar hat o'tricks."

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I don't have that type of equipment neither. However, there is big difference between having a simple 5.1 system (which many people with 360/PS3's have) and saying that it is a "fact that most people with a PS3 play their game through TV speakers."

Especially if some people want others to believe that the PS3 is nothing more than a Blu-Ray player. How many people would buy such an expensive Blu-Ray player...only to waste the audio on TV speakers?
People have been playing their video game systems through their "stero" speakers for LONG time now. That statement simply has the stench of fanboyism in a weak attempt to discount the uncompressed audio MGS4.

As far as the upper hand goes....I think it is really starting to go Sony's way. It seems like once Blu-Ray won the format war, the X-Box aged rather quickly. If HD-DVD would have won....than it would have been the X-Box, with its huge library of games, XBL, and HD-DVD add-on vs the PS3, it's blue-tooth, wi-fi, useless BD player, and a few titles.

As of right now, the PS3 has the "capability" to do everything the 360 does, but the 360 cannot do half as much as the PS3 can. For instance, XBL is FAR more advanced than the PSN....BUT...with the easily upgradable SATA II's, the secondary OS, and the unplugged USB ports, the PS3 has the "capability" to exceed the 360 in this area....it is just that Sony has not done for the PSN what MS has done for the 360.

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WHat MS has (large library of live and disc based games) the PS3 will have,what the PS3 has (better OS,easier to upgrade and bigger HDD system,bigger disc system) the 360 lacks.

MS set themselfs up and cripples their own Gdamn legs, I do not care for brans as much as quality of product and MS time and time again has shown if you have evolved from a knuckle dragging console noob the 360 is a anti consumer nightmare from the quality to the fees to the price...the PS3 aint much better right now but at least it baths(something I can not say for self)...

the WII is in its own lil world dominating the casual and non gamer crowd so I would not count it nor count it out, I am looking at the main 2 "game" systems made and marketed to gamers the WII just ain't there yet.


So far sony is on the right track let hope they dont screw itup.....we don;t need 2 MS's....

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Originally posted by ChiefBrdy:

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The Wii doesn't have HD and it's doing well. The Xbox 360 will probably lower it's price and compete as nothing more than a game machine. For the price conscious, this will be a good thing.

Also, when stand alone Blue-ray players are in the sub $200 range. More people will buy them and not so much consider Blu-ray when buying a game machine i.e. Playstation.

At which point, the Playstation will be viewed as overpriced for gamers. So they will go to the Xbox or Wii for games, and a stand alone player for Blu-ray, leaving a niche market for Playstation.

On the other hand. Something entirely different will play out. Maybe an unknown company will develop a holographic game machine that also vacuums the floor. Everything at this point is pure speculation.

Right now, I have the 360 and the $49 HD player to go with it. I get the games off of Amazon or eBay at a fraction of the cost and the HD DVD's the same way. I'm waiting for Blu-ray to come down on price before buying one. Until then, my up converting players are just fine.

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WII is a whole other type of "ballgame" I would not call them a game system in the common sense, the reason tis doing great is because tis sold out to be a mainstream gimmick, with 3 or 4 real games on it I dunno it needs more of alot of things to become a real game system to me, the 360 is broken and getting to its death bed without some improvement to the hardware aspect of it.

The PS3 seems to have the long run sewn up,right now its choices are not much better than the WII and the 360 has a nice selection of games if you want to deal with tis hardware issues and don;t have a game worthy PC.

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Regarding the Wii, man are you right. I just looked up the games on Amazon. Slim pickens indeed. They had a few good ones but overall they are definitely geared toward the little kid. I did see Tiger Woods 08. I wonder if you can use a Wii golf club and swing like you were really playing. That would be cool.

Regarding the Xbox. Admittedly, the first generation of Xbox 360s were pure crap with the 'red lights of death.' I've had one that was fixed under warranty for about 6 months. It has worked flawlessly. Not one problem with the hardware.

I my particular case, I bought a broken 360 Ultimate for $118. Called MS, didn't lie. Told them I bought it from eBay and it didn't work and red lights were flashing. The rep set up a return at no charge and sent me out a new (refurb I'm sure) one. Add the $49 HD DVD player I bought (with 6 free movies) and I got one heck of a system for $167. Yes, I know HD DVD is dead and all the arguments.

Some of the new games are awesome on both the PS3 and Xbox platform. I saw a demo of Army of Two in a store. I swear, for a minute I thought I was watching a movie.

The 360 won't be getting Blu-Ray to play games and that's the end of it.You can whine all you like about it not getting uncompressed 7.1 audio for all the PS3 owners bar me cuz I have only 5.1 compressed (poor me)that have state of the art HDMI Amps,speakers,etc.
I can also state for the fact that I have played PS3 games on my 1080P telly and some games are reported on my screen as 720P whereas my 360 scales everything and I mean every demo,video,game to 1080P.
I enjoy my 360 and PS3 as they are both worth having in my opinion.I don't have to be a bleedin' fanboy cheering for the Xbots or 'Sony Defence Force' telling everyone else that one system is SHIT and the other is so GREAT.
I think this Blu-Ray debate is a none issue.If you want HD films and HD games get a PS3 it's good value entertainment,if you want HD games get a 360, also good value and if you want fun and exercise in SD get a Wii which is probably the best value for fun of all the systems.
Have fun everyone and try to keep your crying and whining to an acceptable level ok kids....

Hello Fellow Gamers. After reading all of these posts up to this point, I have a few things to say. First off this topic is about M$ not adopting BluRay. They have their reasons. Just because some people want them to have BluRay doesn't mean it's going to happen. So far I haven't seen a BluRay game look any better than a DVD9 game. It's a STORAGE MEDIUM PEOPLE. A HDD will always dominate the storage space.

Second. Some of you mentioned the audio sound in the games. It's true that people have HDtvs with only stereo sound & no surround. A lot of people have that type of setup. They had to make a choice. Get a game system or a surround sound system. Guess which one won? As long as they can hear good stereo, that good enough for most. This is real life. Not everyone has the money or means to buy a HDTV, Surround Sound system along with the console of choice (X360, Wii, PS3). We get the Console 1st & go from there.

Third. Xblive is the BEST online service for a console to date. PSN nor Wii comes close to what M$ has done with Xblive. That's a fact. Wow.., you guys can't afford to pay $4 a month, but complain to other people about buying Surround sound systems with receivers & HDtvs. Please..come up with a better excuse for not paying for Xblive. Some of you spend more than $4 a month on things like, Cigarettes, Beer, candy, Soda, etc.. Heck I'll bet most of you spend more than $4 a day on the items I've just mentioned.

I would go on but you get my point. Or do you?

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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So far I haven't seen a BluRay game look any better than a DVD9 game.

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I have :P

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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It's a STORAGE MEDIUM PEOPLE. A HDD will always dominate the storage space.

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In which most 360s don't have.

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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Third. Xblive is the BEST online service for a console to date.

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;)

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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Wow.., you guys can't afford to pay $4 a month, but complain to other people about buying Surround sound systems with receivers & HDtvs. Please..come up with a better excuse for not paying for Xblive. Some of you spend more than $4 a month on things like, Cigarettes, Beer, candy, Soda, etc.. Heck I'll bet most of you spend more than $4 a day on the items I've just mentioned.

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Most people don't want to pay because they don't find it to be worth it (many are just cheap). I'll play a good campaign over online any day (haven't seen one yet though...). And my friend who has live and high speed DSL and he still constantly gets lag because of people with poop connections and slow servers because people overload them, like Halo 3. You don't really get what you intended to pay for. Ya Live has the biggest community ever with like 10 million people, but it's not like your gonna play with all those people... Most of them just slow you down. PS3 only has 1-2 million but I always have people to play with 24/7 and thats all I care about. Wii, well I haven't tried yet because there aren't too many WiFi games (a plus in my mind) but I will be playin' SBMB a lot over it an since it's so popular I'm pretty sure I'll have good support with that game.

Originally posted by Jagosix:

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I would go on but you get my point. Or do you?

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Not quite ^^

Sigh...Here Wii go again.

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Some of you spend more than $4 a month on things like, Cigarettes, Beer, candy, Soda.

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heh you just mentioned a Gamers food arsenal.

but you did forget energy drinks how very dissapointed i am.

Energy Drinks are the only things that get me through 70% of GamerWood Game's

*sighs*

I explained exactly why the Wii is "a game console" and should be considered a competitor (besides the fact that MS and Sony certainly do.)

Most people are content with SD DVD content and 480i TV broadcasts, even if they are part of the population that owns an HDTV. Not everyone is an AV enthusiast like those that frequent the message boards here at AD. They are not going to own and HDTV, Surround Sound, or even hook their console to the internet.

Also, children do drive a good portion of the gaming industry, which has grown up with many of us. It is segmented. The Wii is trying hit a segment of the customer. I'm sure there are parents that aren't thrilled at even giving their little one the option of grabbing a copy of Condemned or Gears!

Anyhow, in a market where customers are content with SD, and with less tech savvy people or AV enthusiasts, they see no real benefit from the "media center" capabilities (and higher price tag) of the 360 or PS3. That's why the Wii sells.

For the rest of us with our bleeding edge technology, we're left to argue small differences in each of the consoles to prove which one is the best. It's no different than choosing Coke or Pepsi, just a different scale.

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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*sighs*

I explained exactly why the Wii is "a game console" and should be considered a competitor (besides the fact that MS and Sony certainly do.)

Most people are content with SD DVD content and 480i TV broadcasts, even if they are part of the population that owns an HDTV. Not everyone is an AV enthusiast like those that frequent the message boards here at AD. They are not going to own and HDTV, Surround Sound, or even hook their console to the internet.

Also, children do drive a good portion of the gaming industry, which has grown up with many of us. It is segmented. The Wii is trying hit a segment of the customer. I'm sure there are parents that aren't thrilled at even giving their little one the option of grabbing a copy of Condemned or Gears!

Anyhow, in a market where customers are content with SD, and with less tech savvy people or AV enthusiasts, they see no real benefit from the "media center" capabilities (and higher price tag) of the 360 or PS3. That's why the Wii sells.

For the rest of us with our bleeding edge technology, we're left to argue small differences in each of the consoles to prove which one is the best. It's no different than choosing Coke or Pepsi, just a different scale.

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I used to agree with that. But it's really no longer the case. Most people used to be content with 8-tracks, albums, cassettes and rabbit ears. CDs and SD is dying in the USA and dead in some other countries. HD is not for enthusiasts anymore. After seeing TV and games in HD, there is no comparison.

vinny13
Live is th best online console service since it has the most offerings, however its costly incomparation to the others and PSN will get to where live is in about 2 years.

SProdigy
I agree with you its a competitor I just will stipulate that most normal gamers have wrote it off as a toy in comparation to their PC/360/PS3.

ChiefBrdy
Its still going to take 5 years for it to get anywhere, thats plenty of time to rake in the cash, hell he WII has already made them twice as much profit as the GC did so the WII ending or not is a not a issue for nin.

Don't worry, XBOX 360, it's coming. They just need to work out the details.

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DieMPAA-Don't worry, XBOX 360, it's coming. They just need to work out the details.

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yes they have to there is No Excuse why they can't.

if they lag behind it means they Rushed Dev. for nothing. the worse they could do is nothing. and im sure MS doesn't want 18 million people,the majority of developers breathing down there necks.

however im more interested on how there going to deal with this,Come back by Sony.

Sony is not the 'Official' owner of Blu-Ray, I don't know why everyone thinks they are. It was made by the Blu-Ray Disc Association, and Sony just happens to be big contributors on the Board of Directors (along with the other 180 companies). So it really doesn't matter whether Sony says yes or no.

Everyone thinks of Sony because the developed most of it along with Panasonic.

Mike M.
is RIGHT!

Pay attention! (especially those of your bitter HD-DVD buyers who want to blame Sony for EVERYTHING because your dongle for your Xbox is no longer worth it)

Its nice to see that some people do homework before posting.

Epic Failure.